22 June Workers’ Remuneration: Technical Group Motion
Click to hear Maureen's statement
It has been proven both scientifically with sociological studies and in other ways that countries with a narrow social gap are much better. They are healthier and more stable and there is little unrest with a happier society. Those countries with wide social gaps are places of unrest, much disturbance and much abuse of human rights with mental health issues, increases in prison population and levels of violence. However, given the various cuts to date, the proposed cuts and charges and this debate, I fear we are creating the kind of society in which the gaps between the various classes are becoming increasingly wide.This motion concerns an attack upon low-paid workers. Why is the Government starting with the low-paid? I do not wish to be told that people at the other end of the scale have taken cuts. While they may have so done, they are not proportionate to what is being proposed in respect of the low-paid workers. If one considers the Dáil, one is paid €10,000 to chair a committee, even though Members are aware the bulk of the work is carried out by the staff. Where is the fairness in such an arrangement? While this issue will no doubt appear on an election manifesto for the next election, it will not be tackled now as an unjust payment to those who are well paid.
I do not believe there is hard evidence that cutting JLCs will create jobs in the hospitality sector. Many of those who work in this sector have trained with Fáilte Ireland or CERT as it used to be called. They have a variety of craft skills, such as chef, waiter, waitress, management and so on. The courses in question vary in length, involve great work experience and offer people good and varied qualifications when they come out.
Cutting JLCs will have a detrimental effect on these high standards. Workers in the hospitality sector need to be supported in acquiring these skills which will be of help in continuing to attract visitors to the country.
The jobs initiative has introduced certain measures to assist the hospitality sector such as a lower VAT rate, a reduction in PRSI and getting rid of the travel tax. We should wait to see what effect these measures will have without first going after the low-paid. The tax incentives to the hotel industry had a negative effect, with every Tom, Dick and Harry of a speculator building hotels. This had a detrimental effect on family-run, long-established hotels with high standards. It certainly was not low paid workers who were responsible for our difficulties.
Any further reduction in the incomes of low paid workers will have a significant effect in a number of areas. Cuts will lead to a further strain on health and social services, an increase in claims for family income supplement and to community welfare officers, and a drop in revenue and tax revenue. People will not spend money. They are not spending it now, which is affecting businesses. Therefore, if their incomes are reduced further, even less will be spent and there will be more job losses.
A negotiated adjustment to Sunday pay rates brings them from double time to time and one third. Sunday working is considered unsocial, which must be recognised, as it is in other European countries which make special provision for Sunday working.
The shareholders in Bank of Ireland had a meeting last week and there was reference to the same old staggering salaries paid at the top and the complete disregard for ordinary people who had lost money. The board members continue to fly the flag for the elite. We allow this to continue, not to mention the obscene payout to a former AIB managing director. There is much fumbling in the greasy till, but it is not adding the halfpence to the pence, rather it is adding a nought. Therefore, what does it matter if it is three, four or five noughts when one is at the top end of the scale? We have to introduce income equality and not exacerbate the problem. Therefore, I am very happy to support the motion.
I do not believe there is hard evidence that cutting JLCs will create jobs in the hospitality sector. Many of those who work in this sector have trained with Fáilte Ireland or CERT as it used to be called. They have a variety of craft skills, such as chef, waiter, waitress, management and so on. The courses in question vary in length, involve great work experience and offer people good and varied qualifications when they come out.
Cutting JLCs will have a detrimental effect on these high standards. Workers in the hospitality sector need to be supported in acquiring these skills which will be of help in continuing to attract visitors to the country.
The jobs initiative has introduced certain measures to assist the hospitality sector such as a lower VAT rate, a reduction in PRSI and getting rid of the travel tax. We should wait to see what effect these measures will have without first going after the low-paid. The tax incentives to the hotel industry had a negative effect, with every Tom, Dick and Harry of a speculator building hotels. This had a detrimental effect on family-run, long-established hotels with high standards. It certainly was not low paid workers who were responsible for our difficulties.
Any further reduction in the incomes of low paid workers will have a significant effect in a number of areas. Cuts will lead to a further strain on health and social services, an increase in claims for family income supplement and to community welfare officers, and a drop in revenue and tax revenue. People will not spend money. They are not spending it now, which is affecting businesses. Therefore, if their incomes are reduced further, even less will be spent and there will be more job losses.
A negotiated adjustment to Sunday pay rates brings them from double time to time and one third. Sunday working is considered unsocial, which must be recognised, as it is in other European countries which make special provision for Sunday working.
The shareholders in Bank of Ireland had a meeting last week and there was reference to the same old staggering salaries paid at the top and the complete disregard for ordinary people who had lost money. The board members continue to fly the flag for the elite. We allow this to continue, not to mention the obscene payout to a former AIB managing director. There is much fumbling in the greasy till, but it is not adding the halfpence to the pence, rather it is adding a nought. Therefore, what does it matter if it is three, four or five noughts when one is at the top end of the scale? We have to introduce income equality and not exacerbate the problem. Therefore, I am very happy to support the motion.
16 June Water and Sewerage Services Private Members
Click to hear Maureen speak
Like many others I believe water is a basic human right, just like the air we breathe. I hope the next step will not be an air tax. Living in and representing Dublin Central I know very well about water, and flooding in particular. A major factor in flooding is the poor infrastructure evident in many areas and antiquated piping. There is also significant water leakage, leading to major shortages, as well as wastage on the other hand. If we had a proper system we would not need this debate. Instead of spending money on water meters we should install a modern and efficient distribution network as that will create the jobs that we need.I support the Minister’s comments on rainwater, which is the way to go. I would like to see more of that thinking. Equally, an education or awareness programme on how to use water and not waste it would be beneficial. We could begin in this House with the amount of water that comes from taps just to wash our hands.
There is a proposal for a quango to deal with water. The water services should remain with local authorities but we know who is pulling the strings in that regard. This tax will lead to further inequality affecting low-income families and the increasing numbers of what are now known as the new poor. These water charges are a step too far in that regard.
The Government amendment mentions €4.6 billion spent in capital investment in water services in the past decade. There would be a state-of-the-art system in place at this stage if the money had been used efficiently and wisely. The bottom line is that many people cannot afford this tax.
There is a proposal for a quango to deal with water. The water services should remain with local authorities but we know who is pulling the strings in that regard. This tax will lead to further inequality affecting low-income families and the increasing numbers of what are now known as the new poor. These water charges are a step too far in that regard.
The Government amendment mentions €4.6 billion spent in capital investment in water services in the past decade. There would be a state-of-the-art system in place at this stage if the money had been used efficiently and wisely. The bottom line is that many people cannot afford this tax.
8 June Spent Convictions Second Stage
Click to hear Maureen speak
Central to the matter of spent convictions is the philosophy which believes in our capacity to change and that, having made a mistake, committed a crime and done wrong once or perhaps several times, we are capable of reform, learning from our mistakes and getting our lives back on track. Ireland does not have legislation providing for expungement of minor criminal convictions. Every other country in the European Union has such second chance legislation and its existence has not resulted in chaos in the countries in question. What Ireland has is a revolving door with the same people from predominately the same areas going in and out of prison like clockwork. For this reason, we need more incentives to discourage people from pursuing a life of crime and experiencing the revolving door to prison.
A criminal record is a barrier to employment, education, training, travel and insurance and banking services. The current position means the punishment lasts a lifetime. The Irish Penal Reform Trust believes the absence of legislation of this nature is “a recipe for reoffending and for people being trapped in a cycle of poverty and exclusion for the rest of their lives”. We do not want to leave those who offend thinking there is no point in trying to change. We give prisoners the right to vote, but we do not give them enough chances to get themselves back into the community where they can play a meaningful role.
I wish to look at the issue of people with drug convictions. Many families and communities have been affected by drugs, with some being convicted of possessing drugs. They are trying to get their lives back on track, but a conviction casts a long shadow even though it could date from a time when they were younger. Nonetheless, they have paid the penalty, gone through supported training and adult education, and may have families. They are trying to play a part in family life while giving something back to the community where they may earlier have caused havoc. In addition, they often try to be an inspiration to others.
The north inner city has many programmes offering rehabilitation, personal development, further education and training. There are incredible success stories involving individuals who are now reaching their potential and making great progress. However, they will be blocked from further advancement by the lack of such legislation and therefore I am asking that they should get a second chance. The private sector has been active with a mentoring system in business, so we need the public sector to take that on also. We basically want to keep people out of prison and this is one way of doing so.
A criminal record is a barrier to employment, education, training, travel and insurance and banking services. The current position means the punishment lasts a lifetime. The Irish Penal Reform Trust believes the absence of legislation of this nature is “a recipe for reoffending and for people being trapped in a cycle of poverty and exclusion for the rest of their lives”. We do not want to leave those who offend thinking there is no point in trying to change. We give prisoners the right to vote, but we do not give them enough chances to get themselves back into the community where they can play a meaningful role.
I wish to look at the issue of people with drug convictions. Many families and communities have been affected by drugs, with some being convicted of possessing drugs. They are trying to get their lives back on track, but a conviction casts a long shadow even though it could date from a time when they were younger. Nonetheless, they have paid the penalty, gone through supported training and adult education, and may have families. They are trying to play a part in family life while giving something back to the community where they may earlier have caused havoc. In addition, they often try to be an inspiration to others.
The north inner city has many programmes offering rehabilitation, personal development, further education and training. There are incredible success stories involving individuals who are now reaching their potential and making great progress. However, they will be blocked from further advancement by the lack of such legislation and therefore I am asking that they should get a second chance. The private sector has been active with a mentoring system in business, so we need the public sector to take that on also. We basically want to keep people out of prison and this is one way of doing so.
8 June Teaching Council Priority Question
Maureen O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Education and Skills if he has satisfied himself that the previous Government’s financial investment in the Teaching Council has provided value, in view of the fact that there are still unregistered teachers teaching in schools; his role in ensuring accountability of the council and his role in having the €90 fee reduced, as per the motion passed at recent ASTI conference.
Deputy Ruairí Quinn: I see the Teaching Council as key to implementing my Department’s strategic objectives. Much work has already been done by the council to develop education, in particular in maintaining and improving teaching standards. The Teaching Council Act includes provisions for accountability and the council’s relationship with the Department.
Since 2008, the council has been self-funding, raising its funding mainly from teachers’ registration fees. I agree with the council that the annual registration fee of €90 is reasonable and necessary, as significant functions of the council have yet to be rolled out. I am committed to this process.
Since my Department’s tightening of regulations, the numbers of unregistered and unqualified personnel teaching in schools has decreased steadily. To limit further that number, I intend to commence section 30 of the Teaching Council Act 2001.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: When the Teaching Council came in first, I had been teaching for about 35 years. My fellow teachers and I got what I can only describe as a threatening letter, that unless we joined up to the Teaching Council with our €90 our salaries would be stopped. I did not think that was a very positive start to the work of the council. I have yet to meet a teacher, although maybe there are some, who says that the €90 fee represents good value, particularly at a time when teachers’ pay is subject to cuts and levies. The previous Government put €5 million or €6 million into the council at that time but will that be recouped by the current Government?
The council is doing the job the Department of Education and Skills had been doing, so it has been reinventing the wheel. I cannot see any other word to describe the council except as a quango with another gravy-train of expenses for people attending council meetings.
Deputy Ruairí Quinn: I recognise the Deputy’s professional experience and background in this area. Subject to confirmation, my understanding is that the Teaching Council was a professional body requested by participants in the teaching profession themselves, and that it would function similarly to other such professional bodies. It would also be self-regulating in that a registration fee would be required, and would impose its own rules and regulations. I am aware that, because section 30 of the Act has not been brought into full effect, the mandatory requirement on its operations has not yet been rolled out. That has been brought to my attention and it is what I intend to do.
I am not aware of moneys that the Department may have given to the council in the past, but I will make inquiries in that regard. If there is the possibility of a refund then the State will look at that.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I thank the Minister for his reply. Is the Teaching Council accountable to the Minister or is it totally a law unto itself? My understanding is that only certain people in the teaching profession were seeking a teaching council. I do not believe the body of teachers were looking for it.
Deputy Ruairí Quinn:Subject to confirmation, the council is self-regulating and accountable to itself. It operates within the legislation as enacted by this House but it is a self-regulatory body as I understand it.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I know from the personal experiences of friends of mine in the teaching profession that they have had appalling experiences with the Teaching Council, both as new teachers and those who have been teaching for many years.
Deputy Ruairí Quinn: All teachers have representative unions and bodies open to them for membership, although every teacher is not necessarily a member of the relevant union. However, those unions are represented on the Teaching Council and if teachers have complaints, I suggest that is the way to go.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: That is the point I was trying to make earlier about who really wanted this Teaching Council.
Deputy Ruairí Quinn: I see the Teaching Council as key to implementing my Department’s strategic objectives. Much work has already been done by the council to develop education, in particular in maintaining and improving teaching standards. The Teaching Council Act includes provisions for accountability and the council’s relationship with the Department.
Since 2008, the council has been self-funding, raising its funding mainly from teachers’ registration fees. I agree with the council that the annual registration fee of €90 is reasonable and necessary, as significant functions of the council have yet to be rolled out. I am committed to this process.
Since my Department’s tightening of regulations, the numbers of unregistered and unqualified personnel teaching in schools has decreased steadily. To limit further that number, I intend to commence section 30 of the Teaching Council Act 2001.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: When the Teaching Council came in first, I had been teaching for about 35 years. My fellow teachers and I got what I can only describe as a threatening letter, that unless we joined up to the Teaching Council with our €90 our salaries would be stopped. I did not think that was a very positive start to the work of the council. I have yet to meet a teacher, although maybe there are some, who says that the €90 fee represents good value, particularly at a time when teachers’ pay is subject to cuts and levies. The previous Government put €5 million or €6 million into the council at that time but will that be recouped by the current Government?
The council is doing the job the Department of Education and Skills had been doing, so it has been reinventing the wheel. I cannot see any other word to describe the council except as a quango with another gravy-train of expenses for people attending council meetings.
Deputy Ruairí Quinn: I recognise the Deputy’s professional experience and background in this area. Subject to confirmation, my understanding is that the Teaching Council was a professional body requested by participants in the teaching profession themselves, and that it would function similarly to other such professional bodies. It would also be self-regulating in that a registration fee would be required, and would impose its own rules and regulations. I am aware that, because section 30 of the Act has not been brought into full effect, the mandatory requirement on its operations has not yet been rolled out. That has been brought to my attention and it is what I intend to do.
I am not aware of moneys that the Department may have given to the council in the past, but I will make inquiries in that regard. If there is the possibility of a refund then the State will look at that.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I thank the Minister for his reply. Is the Teaching Council accountable to the Minister or is it totally a law unto itself? My understanding is that only certain people in the teaching profession were seeking a teaching council. I do not believe the body of teachers were looking for it.
Deputy Ruairí Quinn:Subject to confirmation, the council is self-regulating and accountable to itself. It operates within the legislation as enacted by this House but it is a self-regulatory body as I understand it.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I know from the personal experiences of friends of mine in the teaching profession that they have had appalling experiences with the Teaching Council, both as new teachers and those who have been teaching for many years.
Deputy Ruairí Quinn: All teachers have representative unions and bodies open to them for membership, although every teacher is not necessarily a member of the relevant union. However, those unions are represented on the Teaching Council and if teachers have complaints, I suggest that is the way to go.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: That is the point I was trying to make earlier about who really wanted this Teaching Council.
01 June Ministers and Secretaries (Amendment) Second Stage
Click to hear Maureen's speech
"Change is in the air and reform very much on the agenda, especially with the debates in the House this week and the Private Members’ motion from the Technical Group. The Minister tells us that the Government is committed to fundamental review, reform and the overhaul of all aspects of government and administration in Ireland. The programme for Government also envisages a renewed focus on a range of related reform issues to facilitate more open, transparent and better government, giving citizens a greater choice and input into service delivery. Our Private Members’ motion is about rebuilding Ireland’s political system into an effective, accountable, transparent, representative and participatory institution. We have so much in common - desire for change, effectiveness and accountability - that we might all be voting the same way tonight. The Minister identifies the kernel of this as leading to “a changed, more effective and less costly public service”. Doing more with less seems to be the prevailing theme. There is no doubt that money has been squandered in the good years but we need to promote values besides money, and not just value for money, important as that is. We need a public service ethos to serve and empower the public and not institutionalise the system in an inertia that degrades people. I acknowledge that there are great demands on our public service.
I also attended the launch this morning and the Ombudsman for Children made the point that a recent analysis of the office’s casework provided supporting evidence for the need for public service reform. She pointed to a lack of awareness of the impact of civil and administrative decision making on the lives and rights of children and their families. She made the point strongly that, as she put it, “individual children appear to be largely invisible in the decision making process, the result being an excessively bureaucratic approach to public decision making and a disconnect between the administrative decision makers and those affected by their decisions”. Bureaucratic decisions can be made but those decisions should not lead to harm for the child where the child’s needs are not met
We need a culture where children are treated properly, and the Ombudsman for Children makes the point that law, policy and practice should reflect the value of treating every child “no less than we would want the child we love treated”. I hope that value is at the core of this reform, along with value and respect for the dignity of each citizen, especially when dealing with challenging behaviour from some citizens. The system has to serve the people and not the other way around.
In yesterday’s edition of The Irish Times Fintan O’Toole wrote an article entitled “Gravy train still stops at all the right stations”. He wrote about a bubble of comfort and self satisfaction. It is a kind of “let them eat cake” mentality that exists when we consider the gross inequalities in our society. So when I look at section 7 of the Bill, which refers to chief executive officers, is the Government really going to grasp that nettle and cap the salaries of those at the top? Will it commit to eliminating bonuses and will it at the very least reduce expenses by 50%? Can we have a penalty for those who use bigger cars, rather than the other way around?
In the interests of justice and morality, we cannot expect those on low income continually to take the hit. We must commit to the principle that those with more surrender more to reduce inequality. I hope such a principle will be at the core of this. The universal social charge, water charges and property taxes may have been acceptable in a time of plenty, but not at a time of struggle because they will lead to further inequalities. It will result in a massive burden on low and medium income homes and make them more dependent on public services when in difficulty. The DPP’s office, corporate enforcement and pursuing alleged wrong doings in financial and business affairs cannot be sacrificed at the altar of employment number reductions, nor can essential front-line services.
The Minister mentions traditional public service values of integrity, impartiality, diligence, commitment and the ability of public servants. As a former teacher in the public service, I can testify that those values were in abundance among my fellow teachers. I hope the extra-curricular work that has always been done is acknowledged because that extra hour being sought could do more damage, as many teachers give much more than it, be it in sports, debates, school productions or school tours.
The Croke Park agreement is seen as an opportunity to drive forward public service modernisation. However, there should be an extension in respect of retirement, so that those in public service with vast experience and with the ability and the wish to continue work should not be forced into retirement because they will be at considerable financial loss if they do not retire by next February.
Another point I want to make is that I resent recent moves to pit the poor of this country against the poor of countries in Africa. It is immoral to go down that road.
Reform is key, but it must be thought out, based on expert advice and centred on people in need. I had a letter from a friend which has reminded me of the differences between these groups. It states that the optimist believes in the continuous march of progress, without really getting into how that is going to happen, the pessimist is usually so disengaged that his pessimism protects him from having to do something by projecting the idea that nothing can be done and the realist has a rational belief in the human capacity to solve and cope, provided the action is realistic. Realistic action needs to be daring and radical. That means starting from the top and keeping the needs of the people in mind."
I also attended the launch this morning and the Ombudsman for Children made the point that a recent analysis of the office’s casework provided supporting evidence for the need for public service reform. She pointed to a lack of awareness of the impact of civil and administrative decision making on the lives and rights of children and their families. She made the point strongly that, as she put it, “individual children appear to be largely invisible in the decision making process, the result being an excessively bureaucratic approach to public decision making and a disconnect between the administrative decision makers and those affected by their decisions”. Bureaucratic decisions can be made but those decisions should not lead to harm for the child where the child’s needs are not met
We need a culture where children are treated properly, and the Ombudsman for Children makes the point that law, policy and practice should reflect the value of treating every child “no less than we would want the child we love treated”. I hope that value is at the core of this reform, along with value and respect for the dignity of each citizen, especially when dealing with challenging behaviour from some citizens. The system has to serve the people and not the other way around.
In yesterday’s edition of The Irish Times Fintan O’Toole wrote an article entitled “Gravy train still stops at all the right stations”. He wrote about a bubble of comfort and self satisfaction. It is a kind of “let them eat cake” mentality that exists when we consider the gross inequalities in our society. So when I look at section 7 of the Bill, which refers to chief executive officers, is the Government really going to grasp that nettle and cap the salaries of those at the top? Will it commit to eliminating bonuses and will it at the very least reduce expenses by 50%? Can we have a penalty for those who use bigger cars, rather than the other way around?
In the interests of justice and morality, we cannot expect those on low income continually to take the hit. We must commit to the principle that those with more surrender more to reduce inequality. I hope such a principle will be at the core of this. The universal social charge, water charges and property taxes may have been acceptable in a time of plenty, but not at a time of struggle because they will lead to further inequalities. It will result in a massive burden on low and medium income homes and make them more dependent on public services when in difficulty. The DPP’s office, corporate enforcement and pursuing alleged wrong doings in financial and business affairs cannot be sacrificed at the altar of employment number reductions, nor can essential front-line services.
The Minister mentions traditional public service values of integrity, impartiality, diligence, commitment and the ability of public servants. As a former teacher in the public service, I can testify that those values were in abundance among my fellow teachers. I hope the extra-curricular work that has always been done is acknowledged because that extra hour being sought could do more damage, as many teachers give much more than it, be it in sports, debates, school productions or school tours.
The Croke Park agreement is seen as an opportunity to drive forward public service modernisation. However, there should be an extension in respect of retirement, so that those in public service with vast experience and with the ability and the wish to continue work should not be forced into retirement because they will be at considerable financial loss if they do not retire by next February.
Another point I want to make is that I resent recent moves to pit the poor of this country against the poor of countries in Africa. It is immoral to go down that road.
Reform is key, but it must be thought out, based on expert advice and centred on people in need. I had a letter from a friend which has reminded me of the differences between these groups. It states that the optimist believes in the continuous march of progress, without really getting into how that is going to happen, the pessimist is usually so disengaged that his pessimism protects him from having to do something by projecting the idea that nothing can be done and the realist has a rational belief in the human capacity to solve and cope, provided the action is realistic. Realistic action needs to be daring and radical. That means starting from the top and keeping the needs of the people in mind."
