25 October Priority Questions - Departmental Bodies
Clickto hear Maureen's exchange
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan asked the Minister for Justice and Equality that leaving aside the work of the Inter-Departmental Committee being chaired by Senator Mc Aleese, the action he is taking to progress the issue of restorative justice for women of the Magdalene laundry system; his response to the Restorative Justice and Reparations scheme proposed by the Justice for Magdalenes group; when will the State lead on offering an apology and establish the dedicated unit; and if he is seeking legal advice on the proposed Commission for Financial Reparation as prepared by the JFM group. [31295/11]
Deputy Alan Shatter: The Deputy will be aware that the Government considered the circumstances of women and girls who resided in the laundries at its meeting on 14 June 2011. As a first step, the Government decided that it was essential to establish fully the true facts and circumstances relating to the Magdalene laundries and a number of actions were agreed.
This included the setting up of an interdepartmental committee to establish the facts of State involvement with the laundries, to clarify any State interaction and to produce a narrative detailing such interaction. I am pleased to say that the committee, under the independent chairmanship of Senator McAleese, has submitted an interim progress report which was considered by Cabinet this morning and arrangements are being made for its publication this afternoon. I welcome the progress that is being made and, in particular, I am pleased to tell the House that the committee is receiving full co-operation from all concerned, including the religious orders and representative groups of women who were formerly resident in the laundries and those who have been campaigning on their behalf.
The Government decision also charged both myself, as the Minister for Justice and Equality, and the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, equality, mental health and older people, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, with meeting the religious congregations and the groups representing former residents of the laundries. One of the purposes of these meetings was to discuss the putting in place of a restorative and reconciliation process as well as the structure that might be utilised to facilitate such process. All of these meetings have taken place, including with representatives from the Justice for Magdalenes group. My Department recently received from them the document referred to by the Deputy and it is currently being considered. I might also add that the views of other representative groups and the religious orders are also being considered. It is important, therefore, to emphasise that we are engaged in a process which is seeking to fully establish the facts and it is too early at this stage to predict what the outcomes might be.
I am pleased with the work being undertaken and the full co-operation which has been received by the group led by Senator Martin McAleese. The dialogue in which we have engaged directly has been very constructive and I wish to commend Senator McAleese for the Trojan work of both him and his group in a very short period of time.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I wish to acknowledge the work of the Justice for Magdalenes group, the members of which have done tremendous work. They have taken up a cause that nobody else wanted to deal with for a very long time.
During the recent theatre festival I attended a play which was based in the Magdalene laundry in Seán MacDermott Street. This was an interactive production so I was there as part of the congregation. I was there for approximately one hour and I thought I would never get out of the place. I can only imagine what the women, the ladies, went through.
I acknowledge the Minister’s reply to my question but it seems that many of the issues raised are at the stage of being considered rather than action being taken. These ladies have waited long enough. I do not wish to be cynical and query if the Minister is waiting until they have all died but there is that element about it.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: A question, please.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: There are specific aspects to my original question. I ask what is being done in the meantime. I do not believe there has been any advance with regard to the apology or the legal advice being sought by the Minister. When does the Minister expect the final report and is he committed to implementing any recommendations?
Deputy Alan Shatter: When the Deputy sees the interim report which is being published this afternoon she will note that Senator McAleese describes in great detail the progress that has been made. All of the religious congregations have co-operated with him to the extent that all of their records going back over 90 years have been made available to him and to his interdepartmental group. Substantial work is ongoing within each Department which can provide any information from its files of any description with regard to the State’s contact with the Magdalene laundries going back to 1922. All this information is being compiled. This is very important work because the background, the story of the events that occurred over those years, is perhaps a little more complex when it is put in the context of the different eras and decades, than has been portrayed to date. Download recent interim report here
I very much welcome the constructive progress that has been made. The Government will not pre-empt the work of Senator McAleese’s group in dealing with the religious orders, the Justice for Magdalenes group and the other groups. When that work is complete, other issues will then be addressed. In the meantime a question does not arise and I ask the Deputy to withdraw the suggestion that anyone is waiting for people to die.
This is the first Government to make specific decisions to address the very genuine worries and concerns that have been expressed by those who lived in the Magdalene laundries. We have put in place a process in which we are also moving forward on other fronts. The possibility of a restorative justice scheme operating is under active consideration between the religious congregations and the former residents. We are looking at the possibility of a repository in which all the records of the laundries are retained. In the meantime, significant progress has been made in a very short period of time by Senator McAleese’s group.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I acknowledge it is this Government which has begun the work. However, an important point needs to be made about the timeframe. Many of these ladies are very elderly and it is being said in certain quarters that there seems to have been a delaying tactic. I look forward to reading the report this afternoon and no doubt there will be a need for a further priority question.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a question at this point?
Deputy Alan Shatter: The Deputy will be aware that the Government considered the circumstances of women and girls who resided in the laundries at its meeting on 14 June 2011. As a first step, the Government decided that it was essential to establish fully the true facts and circumstances relating to the Magdalene laundries and a number of actions were agreed.
This included the setting up of an interdepartmental committee to establish the facts of State involvement with the laundries, to clarify any State interaction and to produce a narrative detailing such interaction. I am pleased to say that the committee, under the independent chairmanship of Senator McAleese, has submitted an interim progress report which was considered by Cabinet this morning and arrangements are being made for its publication this afternoon. I welcome the progress that is being made and, in particular, I am pleased to tell the House that the committee is receiving full co-operation from all concerned, including the religious orders and representative groups of women who were formerly resident in the laundries and those who have been campaigning on their behalf.
The Government decision also charged both myself, as the Minister for Justice and Equality, and the Minister of State with responsibility for disability, equality, mental health and older people, Deputy Kathleen Lynch, with meeting the religious congregations and the groups representing former residents of the laundries. One of the purposes of these meetings was to discuss the putting in place of a restorative and reconciliation process as well as the structure that might be utilised to facilitate such process. All of these meetings have taken place, including with representatives from the Justice for Magdalenes group. My Department recently received from them the document referred to by the Deputy and it is currently being considered. I might also add that the views of other representative groups and the religious orders are also being considered. It is important, therefore, to emphasise that we are engaged in a process which is seeking to fully establish the facts and it is too early at this stage to predict what the outcomes might be.
I am pleased with the work being undertaken and the full co-operation which has been received by the group led by Senator Martin McAleese. The dialogue in which we have engaged directly has been very constructive and I wish to commend Senator McAleese for the Trojan work of both him and his group in a very short period of time.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I wish to acknowledge the work of the Justice for Magdalenes group, the members of which have done tremendous work. They have taken up a cause that nobody else wanted to deal with for a very long time.
During the recent theatre festival I attended a play which was based in the Magdalene laundry in Seán MacDermott Street. This was an interactive production so I was there as part of the congregation. I was there for approximately one hour and I thought I would never get out of the place. I can only imagine what the women, the ladies, went through.
I acknowledge the Minister’s reply to my question but it seems that many of the issues raised are at the stage of being considered rather than action being taken. These ladies have waited long enough. I do not wish to be cynical and query if the Minister is waiting until they have all died but there is that element about it.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: A question, please.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: There are specific aspects to my original question. I ask what is being done in the meantime. I do not believe there has been any advance with regard to the apology or the legal advice being sought by the Minister. When does the Minister expect the final report and is he committed to implementing any recommendations?
Deputy Alan Shatter: When the Deputy sees the interim report which is being published this afternoon she will note that Senator McAleese describes in great detail the progress that has been made. All of the religious congregations have co-operated with him to the extent that all of their records going back over 90 years have been made available to him and to his interdepartmental group. Substantial work is ongoing within each Department which can provide any information from its files of any description with regard to the State’s contact with the Magdalene laundries going back to 1922. All this information is being compiled. This is very important work because the background, the story of the events that occurred over those years, is perhaps a little more complex when it is put in the context of the different eras and decades, than has been portrayed to date. Download recent interim report here
I very much welcome the constructive progress that has been made. The Government will not pre-empt the work of Senator McAleese’s group in dealing with the religious orders, the Justice for Magdalenes group and the other groups. When that work is complete, other issues will then be addressed. In the meantime a question does not arise and I ask the Deputy to withdraw the suggestion that anyone is waiting for people to die.
This is the first Government to make specific decisions to address the very genuine worries and concerns that have been expressed by those who lived in the Magdalene laundries. We have put in place a process in which we are also moving forward on other fronts. The possibility of a restorative justice scheme operating is under active consideration between the religious congregations and the former residents. We are looking at the possibility of a repository in which all the records of the laundries are retained. In the meantime, significant progress has been made in a very short period of time by Senator McAleese’s group.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I acknowledge it is this Government which has begun the work. However, an important point needs to be made about the timeframe. Many of these ladies are very elderly and it is being said in certain quarters that there seems to have been a delaying tactic. I look forward to reading the report this afternoon and no doubt there will be a need for a further priority question.
An Leas-Cheann Comhairle: Has the Deputy a question at this point?
25th October Expressions of Sympathy on loss of life of Garda Ciaran Jones
Minister for Justice and Equality (Deputy Alan Shatter): The House will be aware of the tragic incident in County Wicklow yesterday evening when Garda Ciaran Jones was swept away at Ballysmuttan bridge. The recovery of his remains today in Wicklow is dreadful news. My heart goes out to his parents and family members. I offer my condolences to Garda Jones’s colleagues and friends. The Garda Síochána, and all of us, have lost a brave man who put his life at risk in helping the public at a time of great danger. The Stepaside community has lost a dedicated member of its Garda Force. Garda Jones’s courageous actions were in the finest traditions of the Garda Síochána.
I thank all of those involved in the rescue efforts, including Garda Jones’s colleagues, the local Glen of Imaal Mountain Rescue team, the Defence Forces, Civil Defence, coastguard and members of the public. Their commitment and dedication in such hazardous conditions are deeply appreciated. The extraordinary, dreadful sacrifice, in seeking to save the lives of others in appalling conditions, made by Garda Ciaran Jones will be remembered by all of us in this House.
Deputy Dara Calleary: I join with the Minister and House in expressing my sympathies to the family, colleagues and members of the Stepaside and Wicklow communities on the death of Garda Ciaran Jones. I endorse all that the Minister said.
That Garda Jones was off duty when he undertook to protect his neighbours is an indication of his bravery. Our thoughts are with his family, including his parents who are travelling back from abroad - one can only imagine what they are going through - his brother and sister who were with him at the time of the accident, his colleagues and all those who in the most extraordinary of conditions last night searched throughout the night for him.
It is at times like this that we are reminded of the bravery of our gardaí, on and off duty, in trying to save others in all circumstances. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.
Deputy Stephen Donnelly: I too express my deepest sympathies to the family, friends and colleagues of the late Garda Ciaran Jones. I went to Blessington this morning and asked the chief superintendent if there was anything more people could do or if he needed assistance mobilising volunteers. It is an extraordinary measure of the young man that the chief superintendent told me that such was the response from Garda Jones’s community they could not handle any more volunteers.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I welcome the Minister’s statement. I recall thinking to myself when watching television footage of the earthquake in Turkey that we are lucky not to have experienced that type of devastating loss of life in Ireland. I then heard that a young off-duty garda had lost his life while trying to help others. This is a sad day for him, his family and his colleagues
I thank all of those involved in the rescue efforts, including Garda Jones’s colleagues, the local Glen of Imaal Mountain Rescue team, the Defence Forces, Civil Defence, coastguard and members of the public. Their commitment and dedication in such hazardous conditions are deeply appreciated. The extraordinary, dreadful sacrifice, in seeking to save the lives of others in appalling conditions, made by Garda Ciaran Jones will be remembered by all of us in this House.
Deputy Dara Calleary: I join with the Minister and House in expressing my sympathies to the family, colleagues and members of the Stepaside and Wicklow communities on the death of Garda Ciaran Jones. I endorse all that the Minister said.
That Garda Jones was off duty when he undertook to protect his neighbours is an indication of his bravery. Our thoughts are with his family, including his parents who are travelling back from abroad - one can only imagine what they are going through - his brother and sister who were with him at the time of the accident, his colleagues and all those who in the most extraordinary of conditions last night searched throughout the night for him.
It is at times like this that we are reminded of the bravery of our gardaí, on and off duty, in trying to save others in all circumstances. Ar dheis Dé go raibh a anam dílis.
Deputy Stephen Donnelly: I too express my deepest sympathies to the family, friends and colleagues of the late Garda Ciaran Jones. I went to Blessington this morning and asked the chief superintendent if there was anything more people could do or if he needed assistance mobilising volunteers. It is an extraordinary measure of the young man that the chief superintendent told me that such was the response from Garda Jones’s community they could not handle any more volunteers.
Deputy Maureen O’Sullivan: I welcome the Minister’s statement. I recall thinking to myself when watching television footage of the earthquake in Turkey that we are lucky not to have experienced that type of devastating loss of life in Ireland. I then heard that a young off-duty garda had lost his life while trying to help others. This is a sad day for him, his family and his colleagues
18 October Report by the Interdepartmental Working Group on Mortgage Arrears: Statements
Click image to hear Maureen speak
18 October Report by the Interdepartmental Working Group on Mortgage Arrears: Statements
It is very significant that as well taking statements on the interdepartmental working group on mortgage arrears this week, at the same time Fianna Fáil is tabling a Private Members’ Bill on debt settlement and mortgage resolution.
We have taken far too long to get to this point. The issue of mortgage arrears and difficulties did not happen overnight, so this debate is long overdue. Perhaps the situation would not be at crisis point for many mortgage holders if the situation had been treated swiftly and efficiently when the cracks began to appear in the system some years ago. In his discussion on the Private Members’ Bill, Deputy Michael McGrath made the point that it is a duty for all of us, whether in a political party or not, to try to come up with solutions to assist those struggling with high levels of personal debt, and those having difficulties in making mortgage repayments on their family homes, that there is a need for this debate not to be a “them or us” debate, Government versus Opposition, but that all suggestions should be listened to in order to bring about a solution.
There are those who say that people chose to take out 100% mortgages for houses that everyone knew were not worth half that amount, and in some cases were not worth even a quarter of that, and that we should acknowledge personal responsibility. That has to be balanced with the arguments that banks and financial institutions practically threw money at people, with no real discussion of the implications and the “what ifs”. There were no allowances for job losses or for the slump in the market. Who at that stage would not have taken the opportunity to have a 100% mortgage? Media hype also contributed to the crisis, as people were told that they had to get on the property ladder and that if they did not do so now, they would lose out. The hype was that the good times would last forever, and we know that does not happen. The crisis was also fuelled by bad planning decisions, tax breaks, property speculation and the property bubble. We know that bubbles burst, and this one certainly did.
The interdepartmental group on mortgage arrears was composed of civil servants who are probably on a salary scale and with many years of service, and so not unduly affected by mortgage difficulties. Bankers were also on the group, while the chairman was originally with an accountancy firm. I am amazed it did not strike anyone that when discussing mortgage arrears, they might talk to those in arrears. The bankers will come at this problem from a banking perspective, and who welcomed the report? The Irish Banking Federation welcomed it. We know that bankers are into making profits, often at the expense of the customer.
Who should have been asked to contribute to the report? I would have suggested a random selection from a variety of banks of those in arrears with various types of difficulty, and organisations like MABS, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and FLAC, which are in direct contact with people who are struggling. The policies and practices of banks and bankers have brought about the problem, yet we are expecting them to come up with the solution. They will come up with solutions, but for whose benefit?
The need for an independent body is worth considering, and this was in Deputy McGrath’s proposal and in the Keane report as well. That independent body is vital. It will look at each case, listen to the bank situation, listen to the householder in arrears and then come up with proposals for restructuring or solving the problem.
I looked at the MABS response to the Keane report, and I know that the Minister has some reservations and made some points about MABS in his statement. However, I think the service has much to contribute. It has been in existence for 20 years. It has been giving expert advice to families struggling with managing money and dealing with debt. The service has a skilled staff with much expertise, but most particularly, it comes at the matter with people in mind, and not just figures on the balance sheet. As debt matters worsened in recent years, the State looked to MABS for its expertise in the area of indebtedness, and MABS responded, so I do not understand why its representatives were not included on the group that produced the Keane report. People were turning to MABS at the time the report was being compiled as their banks and their financial institutions were letting them down and were not considering the human cost. I share the disappointment expressed by the representatives of MABS that they were not included and that the Keane group did not seek their expert advice. My understanding is that MABS is an international model of good practice in debt resolution.
In its own report, MABS welcomes the provision of additional resources to assist families in mortgage difficulty, but makes the important point that those in mortgage difficulty are also experiencing difficulties with other types of debt. That brings me back to the irresponsibility of lending institutions in throwing money at people. Yes, people took the money, but there is a major “but”. At least the Keane report tacitly acknowledges the relationship between mortgage debt and other types of debt, so MABS calls for a total solution if we are really looking for effective solutions. Mortgage arrears must be dealt with along with the arrears along the issue of personal debt, so there is a need for a comprehensive and complete solution, where the debtor must be given the right to regain control of his or her finances. The report suggests 100 additional advisers and protocols, but I hope they will not be buried in layers of bureaucracy. I hope they will work with the MABS advisers and within that process.
The Keane report appears to suggest that the mortgage advice services could be linked with MABS. I agreed with the AIB comment that all solutions, short term or long term, need the customer working with the lender to reach a solution. Working “with” is the key. The bottom line is that people paid astronomical prices for houses. This began in 1999, but the situation became much worse after 2003. It is far too late to be dealing with the situation, because the writing was on the wall years ago. Those who bought their homes between 2003 and 2007 played a totally uneconomic price in a false market. That has led to Ireland having an extremely high, if not the highest household debt per capita in the developed world. If the mortgage loans are too high, they cannot be repaid.
We cannot confuse the word “home” with those who are speculators on the property market and who bought property to let for tax purposes, or holiday homes here and abroad.
I am talking about helping people to hold on to their homes. If their incomes are declining, they cannot repay crippling mortgages that should never have been given in the first place.
Repossession has been discussed but I do not believe it is an option as it would place an intolerable burden on housing authorities. As someone who is involved with Dublin City Council, I know the housing lists at this stage are far too high and to add more people to the waiting list would cripple the system. The other question is what will happen to repossessed properties. That will leave room for speculators of the future.
We are in difficult times and they may get worse. Mortgages are based on ability to pay so if people are losing their jobs or have reduced working hours, their ability to pay is seriously affected. Rising prices will also affect them seriously. A range of tools is needed to deal with this situation, including debt forgiveness which should be considered in some cases. We must acknowledge the need to write off certain borrowings which should never have been allowed in the first place.
The bankruptcy laws need to be reformed. Other suggestions include trading down mortgages, splitting mortgages, selling by agreement, interest-only arrangements, mortgage-to-rent schemes and extending the years of a mortgage. Part of the proposal has approved housing bodies taking ownership of houses in certain circumstances, and the leasing of houses by banks to local authorities if that is deemed to be more appropriate. I know there is going to be an announcement on this. I have doubts about it and only time will tell if it will work. The bottom line is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution.
The Minister’s report referred to forbearance and it is important to acknowledge that circumstances do change. They have changed for the people who took out mortgages in the past, so circumstances could change again and we must allow for that.
It is very significant that as well taking statements on the interdepartmental working group on mortgage arrears this week, at the same time Fianna Fáil is tabling a Private Members’ Bill on debt settlement and mortgage resolution.
We have taken far too long to get to this point. The issue of mortgage arrears and difficulties did not happen overnight, so this debate is long overdue. Perhaps the situation would not be at crisis point for many mortgage holders if the situation had been treated swiftly and efficiently when the cracks began to appear in the system some years ago. In his discussion on the Private Members’ Bill, Deputy Michael McGrath made the point that it is a duty for all of us, whether in a political party or not, to try to come up with solutions to assist those struggling with high levels of personal debt, and those having difficulties in making mortgage repayments on their family homes, that there is a need for this debate not to be a “them or us” debate, Government versus Opposition, but that all suggestions should be listened to in order to bring about a solution.
There are those who say that people chose to take out 100% mortgages for houses that everyone knew were not worth half that amount, and in some cases were not worth even a quarter of that, and that we should acknowledge personal responsibility. That has to be balanced with the arguments that banks and financial institutions practically threw money at people, with no real discussion of the implications and the “what ifs”. There were no allowances for job losses or for the slump in the market. Who at that stage would not have taken the opportunity to have a 100% mortgage? Media hype also contributed to the crisis, as people were told that they had to get on the property ladder and that if they did not do so now, they would lose out. The hype was that the good times would last forever, and we know that does not happen. The crisis was also fuelled by bad planning decisions, tax breaks, property speculation and the property bubble. We know that bubbles burst, and this one certainly did.
The interdepartmental group on mortgage arrears was composed of civil servants who are probably on a salary scale and with many years of service, and so not unduly affected by mortgage difficulties. Bankers were also on the group, while the chairman was originally with an accountancy firm. I am amazed it did not strike anyone that when discussing mortgage arrears, they might talk to those in arrears. The bankers will come at this problem from a banking perspective, and who welcomed the report? The Irish Banking Federation welcomed it. We know that bankers are into making profits, often at the expense of the customer.
Who should have been asked to contribute to the report? I would have suggested a random selection from a variety of banks of those in arrears with various types of difficulty, and organisations like MABS, the Society of St. Vincent de Paul and FLAC, which are in direct contact with people who are struggling. The policies and practices of banks and bankers have brought about the problem, yet we are expecting them to come up with the solution. They will come up with solutions, but for whose benefit?
The need for an independent body is worth considering, and this was in Deputy McGrath’s proposal and in the Keane report as well. That independent body is vital. It will look at each case, listen to the bank situation, listen to the householder in arrears and then come up with proposals for restructuring or solving the problem.
I looked at the MABS response to the Keane report, and I know that the Minister has some reservations and made some points about MABS in his statement. However, I think the service has much to contribute. It has been in existence for 20 years. It has been giving expert advice to families struggling with managing money and dealing with debt. The service has a skilled staff with much expertise, but most particularly, it comes at the matter with people in mind, and not just figures on the balance sheet. As debt matters worsened in recent years, the State looked to MABS for its expertise in the area of indebtedness, and MABS responded, so I do not understand why its representatives were not included on the group that produced the Keane report. People were turning to MABS at the time the report was being compiled as their banks and their financial institutions were letting them down and were not considering the human cost. I share the disappointment expressed by the representatives of MABS that they were not included and that the Keane group did not seek their expert advice. My understanding is that MABS is an international model of good practice in debt resolution.
In its own report, MABS welcomes the provision of additional resources to assist families in mortgage difficulty, but makes the important point that those in mortgage difficulty are also experiencing difficulties with other types of debt. That brings me back to the irresponsibility of lending institutions in throwing money at people. Yes, people took the money, but there is a major “but”. At least the Keane report tacitly acknowledges the relationship between mortgage debt and other types of debt, so MABS calls for a total solution if we are really looking for effective solutions. Mortgage arrears must be dealt with along with the arrears along the issue of personal debt, so there is a need for a comprehensive and complete solution, where the debtor must be given the right to regain control of his or her finances. The report suggests 100 additional advisers and protocols, but I hope they will not be buried in layers of bureaucracy. I hope they will work with the MABS advisers and within that process.
The Keane report appears to suggest that the mortgage advice services could be linked with MABS. I agreed with the AIB comment that all solutions, short term or long term, need the customer working with the lender to reach a solution. Working “with” is the key. The bottom line is that people paid astronomical prices for houses. This began in 1999, but the situation became much worse after 2003. It is far too late to be dealing with the situation, because the writing was on the wall years ago. Those who bought their homes between 2003 and 2007 played a totally uneconomic price in a false market. That has led to Ireland having an extremely high, if not the highest household debt per capita in the developed world. If the mortgage loans are too high, they cannot be repaid.
We cannot confuse the word “home” with those who are speculators on the property market and who bought property to let for tax purposes, or holiday homes here and abroad.
I am talking about helping people to hold on to their homes. If their incomes are declining, they cannot repay crippling mortgages that should never have been given in the first place.
Repossession has been discussed but I do not believe it is an option as it would place an intolerable burden on housing authorities. As someone who is involved with Dublin City Council, I know the housing lists at this stage are far too high and to add more people to the waiting list would cripple the system. The other question is what will happen to repossessed properties. That will leave room for speculators of the future.
We are in difficult times and they may get worse. Mortgages are based on ability to pay so if people are losing their jobs or have reduced working hours, their ability to pay is seriously affected. Rising prices will also affect them seriously. A range of tools is needed to deal with this situation, including debt forgiveness which should be considered in some cases. We must acknowledge the need to write off certain borrowings which should never have been allowed in the first place.
The bankruptcy laws need to be reformed. Other suggestions include trading down mortgages, splitting mortgages, selling by agreement, interest-only arrangements, mortgage-to-rent schemes and extending the years of a mortgage. Part of the proposal has approved housing bodies taking ownership of houses in certain circumstances, and the leasing of houses by banks to local authorities if that is deemed to be more appropriate. I know there is going to be an announcement on this. I have doubts about it and only time will tell if it will work. The bottom line is that there is no one-size-fits-all solution.
The Minister’s report referred to forbearance and it is important to acknowledge that circumstances do change. They have changed for the people who took out mortgages in the past, so circumstances could change again and we must allow for that.
13 October 2011 Sale of State Assets: Statements
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The analogy of the family silver is often used when discussing State assets. If my family were starving I would certainly consider selling the family silver, if I had any, but I do not think of our State assets in terms of the family silver but of the bread and butter we need for our survival. I hope when we are discussing this matter, it will not be a knee jerk reaction looking for a quick fix solution and that future generation will be taken into account in any decisions that will be made. I do not believe the nation agrees with selling our State assets. The 2011 TASC Equality Survey shows one in three agreed with the privatisation of State assets and 42% were in strong disagreement. The director said that instead of merely focusing on potential once off yields, the privatisation debate needs to focus on the full costs and benefits to the public and the economy. The calculations must comprise the triple bottom line of economic, environment and social costs and benefits. The once off benefit from such sales must be balanced against risks, of which there are three: higher energy costs, lost income streams and reduced employment. Those risks are real. We do not want higher prices for essential services, we do not want more people to lose their jobs and we do not want to throw away potential income. Mistakes were made by Eircom and the country lost out. We could do without a repetition. The wishes of the elected representatives on Dublin City Council are being ignored by the executive in order to privatise waste services. If privatisation goes ahead what type of regulation can there be with a cap on salaries and so on, or will the company be given carte blanche with the public ending up paying, as we see happening in Britain where private operators have abused the situation of privatisation?
I come to the two “C” words, Coillte and Corrib. We have made so many mistakes in both of these situations. With Corrib gas, we have thrown away approximately €8 billion of what is a valuable asset to the country. When we compare what the Nordic countries have gained from their natural resources, let us not give away the other hydrocarbon deposits in Rockall and the Porcupine Basin. If a multinational private company from outside this country buys our strategic assets, can they be trusted to have the best interests of this country at heart?
I come to the two “C” words, Coillte and Corrib. We have made so many mistakes in both of these situations. With Corrib gas, we have thrown away approximately €8 billion of what is a valuable asset to the country. When we compare what the Nordic countries have gained from their natural resources, let us not give away the other hydrocarbon deposits in Rockall and the Porcupine Basin. If a multinational private company from outside this country buys our strategic assets, can they be trusted to have the best interests of this country at heart?
11 October Community and Voluntary Sector: Private Members' Motion
Click on image to hear Maureen speak
We all recognise the community and voluntary sector plays an important role in supporting all aspects of life throughout Ireland. It delivers vital services the Government neglects to deliver on many occasions. Communities respond to particular needs because they would be waiting a long time for the various powers that be to respond to them. I am glad one to see aspect of the amendment, namely, that the Government recognises and values the bottom up community approach so that local communities have a meaningful say in decisions relating to them.
I have difficulty with the word “voluntary” as it is used in this context. The word has been misused by a number of organisations which are far from voluntary. Executives are on extremely high salaries and have lucrative expense accounts. They are doing a disservice to the real volunteers throughout the country who give so freely of their time. It is ironic that €75 million of senior unsecured bonds is due to be paid by three financial institutions at the same time the sector is suffering more crushing cuts. It is picking up the pieces from the public service decisions on cuts which are made very far from communities. Public servants should go out to communities to see what is happening locally and not make decisions from offices.
The Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, launched booklets this week for parents and young people involved in substance abuse. She mentioned one child in 11 is in a family with an alcohol or drug abuse problem. She said, “It is imperative that we support to children and families in Ireland to tackle the issue of problem drug and alcohol abuse”. My constituency is Dublin Central. I cannot discuss it without remembering the late Tony Gregory and the work he did in the 1980s and 1990s which led to the drug task forces, the community policing forum and the huge variety of community, youth and drug projects working on local solutions created by local people.
Community organisations have taken cuts of 18% to 20% and cannot take any more. I support the call for €3 million from the Criminal Assets Bureau, under the Proceeds of Crime Act, to be allocated to the community sector. It would be shortsighted to cut funding to the sector any further. It would cost a lot more in the long run.
I have difficulty with the word “voluntary” as it is used in this context. The word has been misused by a number of organisations which are far from voluntary. Executives are on extremely high salaries and have lucrative expense accounts. They are doing a disservice to the real volunteers throughout the country who give so freely of their time. It is ironic that €75 million of senior unsecured bonds is due to be paid by three financial institutions at the same time the sector is suffering more crushing cuts. It is picking up the pieces from the public service decisions on cuts which are made very far from communities. Public servants should go out to communities to see what is happening locally and not make decisions from offices.
The Minister, Deputy Fitzgerald, launched booklets this week for parents and young people involved in substance abuse. She mentioned one child in 11 is in a family with an alcohol or drug abuse problem. She said, “It is imperative that we support to children and families in Ireland to tackle the issue of problem drug and alcohol abuse”. My constituency is Dublin Central. I cannot discuss it without remembering the late Tony Gregory and the work he did in the 1980s and 1990s which led to the drug task forces, the community policing forum and the huge variety of community, youth and drug projects working on local solutions created by local people.
Community organisations have taken cuts of 18% to 20% and cannot take any more. I support the call for €3 million from the Criminal Assets Bureau, under the Proceeds of Crime Act, to be allocated to the community sector. It would be shortsighted to cut funding to the sector any further. It would cost a lot more in the long run.
06 October Road Traffic (No. 2) Bill 2011 Second Stage
Click image to hear Maureen
I support what Deputy Humphreys said. I represent Dublin Central and receive a number of calls about this issue, particularly from elderly people who are at the mercy of cyclists, a certain percentage of whom simply do not abide by the rules. This is also a problem at bus stops. A person asked me if Dublin Bus would be able to do something about the signage at bus stops. People standing at a bus stop watching out for the bus must also watch out for cyclists who do things they should not do.
On the other hand, we have the fantastic bike scheme introduced by Dublin City Council. There was some debate at the time of its introduction, when it was said it would not work in Dublin, that the bikes would end up in the River Liffey or be vandalised and so forth. Recent figures show, however, that only two bicycles have been vandalised since the scheme started. It has been a real success.
Once again, I thank the Library and Research Service for the digest it put together on the Bill. I refer to the quote from the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, at the back that the combination of lower blood alcohol limits and mandatory testing represents a considerable tightening of the drink driving regime. This new aspect certainly toughens it up. Any initiative which sets out to reduce the number of fatalities on the roads is very welcome because so many families have paid a heavy price as a result of terrible accidents on the roads, many of which have been caused by people driving with considerable amounts of alcohol in their blood. There is no doubt the campaign has done extremely well. There is a culture in much of the country that one does not drink and drive, but, unfortunately, there are parts where that is not evident. I am always intrigued by the numbers of cars outside public houses. They cannot all belong to designated drivers. Some are still taking a risk and driving under the influence of alcohol.
The Minister has stated the Bill is a necessary step to maintain the good work done so far onn road safety and to ensure Ireland continues to make progress. I am not sure we are making the progress we should be making. One of the reasons is that we are not really tackling wha many others and I believe is the main cause of fatalities, namely, excessive speed on the roads. We know that a particular age group and sex are mainly involved in road fatalities where alcohol or drugs have been consumed, but there is also an element of excessive speed. Young men in their early 20s are involved. I have taken lifts from young men in their 20s and it is part of their psychological make up that they cannot stick to the speed limit. It is part of the boy racer image to turn the steering wheel with one hand. They do not know what the speed limits are and they are totally convinced of their immortality, that nothing can ever happen to them. Studies have been done of the psychological aspects, of what will work with this age group and what will get them to slow down. However, slowing down and being young do not go together. We are losing the battle when it comes to speeding on the roads because in many cases young men are not adhering to speed limits. That is not to take from others who do and who would not dream of getting into a car and doing these things. There is a huge issue with young men whizzing around.
I read recently about something which might be introduced in cars to indicate one’s alcohol level when one gets into it. It is more important to attach something to cars to ensure they cannot go above a certain speed limit, in particular for under 25 year old males. That would be a major step forward and I would like to see something like this happen.
We must tackle those who drive under the influence of drugs. We are not paying enough attention to this aspect as we seem to be hooked on the alcohol aspect. If one knows about addiction issues, one will know that the use of prescription drugs is on the increase. Many are driving under the influence of prescription drugs and not heeding the warnings on the effects of these drugs.
Another aspect of road safety is motorway construction. While it is great to be able to drive from Dublin to Cork in two and a half or two and three quarter hours, the fact is permission was given to build that motorway without providing for lay-bys at particular points; it is an accident waiting to happen. I have been driving for 40 years and the only time I was involved in an accident was on that motorway as a result of driver fatigue and having to wait to turn off the motorway to drive a few miles into a town. I know a particular franchise has received money to build something, but it should have come first and I am not the only person who says this.
I welcome the introduction of the offence of knowingly driving a dangerously defective vehicle, which is long overdue. I also welcome the placing of an obligation on a driver to provide a blood or urine specimen while in hospital where that person has been involved in a road traffic collision. This has been a loophole in certain cases.
While I represent Dublin Central, I have many contacts and spend time in rural Ireland. I mention the impact of the lowering of the blood alcohol level, in particular for elderly people whose one social outlet during the week is going to mart or to collect their pension and having two or three drinks afterwards. They will now be over the limit if they do so. I do not advocate that people drink and drive, but there is a category, the members of which are not causing accidents on the roads. There have been calls for a better transport scheme which in some places have been taken on board, as we do not want to contribute to further isolation, particularly for elderly persons living on their own in rural areas.
On the other hand, we have the fantastic bike scheme introduced by Dublin City Council. There was some debate at the time of its introduction, when it was said it would not work in Dublin, that the bikes would end up in the River Liffey or be vandalised and so forth. Recent figures show, however, that only two bicycles have been vandalised since the scheme started. It has been a real success.
Once again, I thank the Library and Research Service for the digest it put together on the Bill. I refer to the quote from the Minister for Transport, Tourism and Sport, Deputy Varadkar, at the back that the combination of lower blood alcohol limits and mandatory testing represents a considerable tightening of the drink driving regime. This new aspect certainly toughens it up. Any initiative which sets out to reduce the number of fatalities on the roads is very welcome because so many families have paid a heavy price as a result of terrible accidents on the roads, many of which have been caused by people driving with considerable amounts of alcohol in their blood. There is no doubt the campaign has done extremely well. There is a culture in much of the country that one does not drink and drive, but, unfortunately, there are parts where that is not evident. I am always intrigued by the numbers of cars outside public houses. They cannot all belong to designated drivers. Some are still taking a risk and driving under the influence of alcohol.
The Minister has stated the Bill is a necessary step to maintain the good work done so far onn road safety and to ensure Ireland continues to make progress. I am not sure we are making the progress we should be making. One of the reasons is that we are not really tackling wha many others and I believe is the main cause of fatalities, namely, excessive speed on the roads. We know that a particular age group and sex are mainly involved in road fatalities where alcohol or drugs have been consumed, but there is also an element of excessive speed. Young men in their early 20s are involved. I have taken lifts from young men in their 20s and it is part of their psychological make up that they cannot stick to the speed limit. It is part of the boy racer image to turn the steering wheel with one hand. They do not know what the speed limits are and they are totally convinced of their immortality, that nothing can ever happen to them. Studies have been done of the psychological aspects, of what will work with this age group and what will get them to slow down. However, slowing down and being young do not go together. We are losing the battle when it comes to speeding on the roads because in many cases young men are not adhering to speed limits. That is not to take from others who do and who would not dream of getting into a car and doing these things. There is a huge issue with young men whizzing around.
I read recently about something which might be introduced in cars to indicate one’s alcohol level when one gets into it. It is more important to attach something to cars to ensure they cannot go above a certain speed limit, in particular for under 25 year old males. That would be a major step forward and I would like to see something like this happen.
We must tackle those who drive under the influence of drugs. We are not paying enough attention to this aspect as we seem to be hooked on the alcohol aspect. If one knows about addiction issues, one will know that the use of prescription drugs is on the increase. Many are driving under the influence of prescription drugs and not heeding the warnings on the effects of these drugs.
Another aspect of road safety is motorway construction. While it is great to be able to drive from Dublin to Cork in two and a half or two and three quarter hours, the fact is permission was given to build that motorway without providing for lay-bys at particular points; it is an accident waiting to happen. I have been driving for 40 years and the only time I was involved in an accident was on that motorway as a result of driver fatigue and having to wait to turn off the motorway to drive a few miles into a town. I know a particular franchise has received money to build something, but it should have come first and I am not the only person who says this.
I welcome the introduction of the offence of knowingly driving a dangerously defective vehicle, which is long overdue. I also welcome the placing of an obligation on a driver to provide a blood or urine specimen while in hospital where that person has been involved in a road traffic collision. This has been a loophole in certain cases.
While I represent Dublin Central, I have many contacts and spend time in rural Ireland. I mention the impact of the lowering of the blood alcohol level, in particular for elderly people whose one social outlet during the week is going to mart or to collect their pension and having two or three drinks afterwards. They will now be over the limit if they do so. I do not advocate that people drink and drive, but there is a category, the members of which are not causing accidents on the roads. There have been calls for a better transport scheme which in some places have been taken on board, as we do not want to contribute to further isolation, particularly for elderly persons living on their own in rural areas.
